WINGER
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INTERVIEWS
Courtesy TheyWillRockYou.com Interviewed by: Star Rhoney | February 2006
Kip Winger
Star goes Down Incognito with Kip Winger...You finished up 2005 with a tour in support of the VH1 Classic release Metal Mania Stripped for which you recorded an AMAZING acoustic version of Madalaine. Reb Beach joined you on that tour and many people thought you stole the show—to say the least you were a very tough act to follow. How did it feel up there for you?
Oh, I feel great on stage. I’ve been doing the acoustic thing for a long time so it feels good and I like it. I don’t know if we blew everyone away but we just try to do our thing and have fun.
2006 looks like it’s going to be another nonstop year. First and foremost I believe you have a new CD scheduled for release early this year…is that still the plan?
It is. I’m finishing it right now and I’m actually possibly talking about doing another Winger record too so…and I’ve got my Blackwood Creek project. I’ve got 3 albums in the works.
We’re really looking forward to each one of them. From a creative and artistic standpoint, can you tell us how your solo stuff differs from what you wrote for Winger?
It’s totally different. The Winger stuff is based off of Reb’s guitar playing and riffs and then we turn them into songs. My solo stuff is much more experimental. That’s how I would sum it up. My solo stuff is just much more experimental and the Winger stuff is much more formulaic and you kind of know what you’re going to get.
Aside from the acoustic solo album you released, this will be your third studio album of all new material. Your first two each have a very different vibe to them. Can you tell us what we can look forward to hearing on the new one?
You say they’re different from…? ‘Conversation’ is different from ‘Ocean Floor’?
I think they are. I think ‘THISCONVERSATIONSEEMSLIKEADREAM’ has a completely different vibe to it than ‘SONGSfromTHEoceanFLOOR’
Yeah, they’re all very different. This is a totally different one as well. It’s more rock in some ways. It’s kind of a combination of the two of them put together…it sounds way better too.
That’s going to be hard to believe but I can’t wait to hear it. Do you have a personal favorite song?
No, no…Songs are just things that I make, I don’t have favorites. If you ask any songwriter they’ll tell you that the song tells you what it wants to be, and you just kinda do it.
Which has been the hardest to get from inside your head onto the tape?
Some are harder than others, yeah. Some take two weeks and some take six months. Some riffs you’ll write ten years ago and turn them into a song years later.
It seems that you play, or have at least experimented with just about every musical instrument imaginable. Do you have formal training on any instruments other than guitar or are you completely self-taught?
I took some piano lessons and singing and guitar. I’ve taken a lot of lessons in my life but I mostly just find my own way, just through my ear. I’ve had a lot of composition lessons, learning how to write.
Is that for the movie scores you do?
I don’t really do a lot of movie scores. Just trying to write classical music. I’ve got a lot of bits and pieces of classical music that I’ve written but nothing major that’s ready to be published. It kinda just needs to bake a little bit more…it takes a long time. I’m working on a piece right now that I’ve been working on for a year, I’ll be done with it in April.
Your songs are very complex and layered. There’s always something new to hear but when you perform live, like you’ve been doing for quite a few years now, somehow you bring those intricate and complex songs to life with just your voice and your 12-string. How hard was THAT to master?
It’s hard to pull them off and make them work, but really it’s all about having solid melodies. If you don’t write good melodies then you don’t have a good song. If you write good melodies you can do anything with an acoustic guitar. My albums are much different from me playing live . It’s easier to do my melodies with an acoustic guitar because they’re fairly solid. I’m not the greatest melody maker on the planet but I TRY to make good melody, that’s basically why it works acoustically.
One of my favorite things about you is that you don’t have a ‘trademark sound’. You’re extremely diverse. Every record surprises and impresses me. You’re a musical chameleon of sorts. I’ve never heard anyone try such varied and elaborate sounds and styles and NAIL EACH ONE PERFECTLY.
You rock
Seriously, HOW do you do that? Maybe that’s a stupid question, because where do you really go from there? It just seems like most people are great at one or two different styles or different sounds but you’re so good at SO many…
I appreciate it. I work very hard at it. I know what I want to hear and I don’t finish anything until it’s exactly the way I want it. It takes me a long time man, I mean I’m six years into this album. I haven’t worked on it for six years but come on, that’s like…Bon Jovi puts an album out once a year. You can do a lot of shit in six years. I just try to get it perfect. The main thing for me is I want you or someone else to be listening to my albums twenty years from now and still be getting something out of them. Instead of having them be boring fucking shit that you listen to a few times and then who cares?
I know what you’re saying. There are a lot of records that I listen to once or twice…like if I haven’t heard them in a while it’s great but then I’m changing to something else the next day. With your stuff it’s just different, I never want to change it. I listen to the same CD over and over and over and I still hear something different. I guess working on something for six years pays off because I feel like each record will last me the rest of my life and I’ll never get sick of them.
Well I appreciate that. That’s my goal for my solo records because as far as me putting out a record with my name on it, it’s very important for me to do that and have it be something that someone’s going to want to listen to and get a lot out of emotionally and experience it in all these different ways. Of course I’d love to sell out arenas and be a big ‘rock star’ again but not if I had to sacrifice what I think I need to put into my albums. My stuff is not that commercial anymore. It’s not instantly on the radio, I mean I don’t even get PLAYED on the radio anymore but the point for me is with my name on it, it’s got to be something that’s going to last for a really long time. So having said that, good SONGS will last for a really long time. A lot of people have written really good songs that’ll last a long time but my things are like…kind of like an exotic meal. Just a little bit different…It’s more like SOUL food from my point of view.
It IS!!! That’s a great way to explain it, I like that. You mentioned earlier something about your project with Blackwood Creek has been around since you were like 11 or something…in some fashion or another?
Well it’s the original band I played in. I started when I was like seven. We played till I was eighteen and then we broke up but we just recorded four songs and we’re going to finish the other six fairly soon.
Your brother Nate is in that with you and your lifelong friend Peter Fletcher right?
Yeah
None of you guys live in the same city. You’re in Nashville, I think Nate’s still in Colorado and Peter lives in California doesn’t he?
Yeah
Do you guys do a lot of collaborating over the phone? That must be a nightmare trying to record.
No. No they come here and we do that and then when they leave we stop.
Are you producing that record too and do all three of you write on it?
Yeah
Aside from producing your own records, you’re also producing at least one outside band called Leigon out of Nashville. How’s that going?
I did four songs with them and their shopping a deal right now so if they get a deal hopefully I’ll produce it but I’m not, I’m not in charge of it. I produced four songs that came out really well…you can hear them on myspace, I think it’s myspace.com/leigion and you can hear the stuff I did on there.
I was going back over some really old interviews from like 1990 and when you were asked what your plans for the future were you said that you wanted to do some new-agey sounding and choral stuff—which you’ve done, compose some orchestral pieces—which you’ve done, produce ‘select people’—which you’ve done, and write some film scores—which you’ve also done right?
I’ve done two.
It seems like you’ve covered all the bases. Is there anything you’d like to do that you haven’t done yet? If you’re looking back 10 years from now, is there anything you’d like to have added to that list?
Well it would be nice to actually be successful at it. (laughs) Ya know, not many people buy my stuff
That needs to change. It’s a crime if you ask me. It’s just not right that people haven’t heard your stuff…a lot of people don’t even know it’s out there! So you’ve got your solo stuff you’re working on, Blackwood Creek and then producing other bands as well, it seems like you’re always changing gears. My head would feel like someone’s playing ping-pong inside of it. Is it hard to be working on so many projects at once or do you prefer to multitask?
Well, I don’t love it, but it’s all just music. It’s challenging to switch gears and I’m better at it now. It’s kinda hard but a producer does that, he does four or five records a year with different bands so if you look at it like a producer you don’t get so wrapped up in it
Most people use music to relax…to escape the daily grind and take them to a ‘happy place’ but when…
Ha! (Kip laughs)
What?
That’s funny
They do! That’s the only good thing in life sometimes, the only thing that gets us through some days. So what do you do when your daily grind IS living and breathing music--24 hours a day? Can you EVER escape the music in your head?
No
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
It just is what it is, ya know?
Well, I’m thankful for it.
And I appreciate it.
I heard you’re going to be one of the counselors at this year’s Rock N’ Roll Fantasy Camp.
I am! Is that a cool thing?
Definitely. However, these people could possibly have very little musical ability and you only have one week to whip them into top form and hopefully help them with the battle of the bands competition. Are you looking forward to THAT kind of a challenge?
Oh yeah… and it’s all in fun right?
I think it’ll be awesome. Hopefully they’ll get a lot of video footage of it. Ok, well we’ve come to what must be the ‘dreaded question’ for you—and hopefully you weren’t thinking that 10 question back—We mentioned earlier that Reb joined you on the Metal Mania tour and I heard rumors that while touring, the two of you did a bit of writing. In the past you’ve said that you’d have to have a ‘reason’ for a Winger reunion…a concept or a theme for an album. Is it possible that NOW you’ve come up with a reason to reunite and finally put out that LONG-AWAITED new Winger record?
Well, I don’t know. Right now would be a good time for it so maybe we’ll do it. I haven’t felt like it’s been the right time to do it before this. So now it pretty much is, and maybe we’ll do it. I like to keep people guessing about that. Maybe I’ll put it on a ‘myspace’ page.
This next Interview is very unique in the sense that his fans asked the questions. The interview was arranged by Paula Winger and is one of my favorite interviews ever done. Thanks to Paula for making this happen. Posted on his official website on Sept 12,2004.
How
old were you when you first began playing guitar and how did you learn?
First I played bass. My Mom and Dad bought Paul a guitar and Nate a drum set
one Christmas. I was already playing a little piano and so the obvious
instrument was bass. I was mostly self-taught. My Mom helped me figure out some
stuff off the records and my brother’s and me would all help each other learn
how to play. I’m left handed so I tried to play left-handed at first. But I
ended up learning to be a little ambidextrous – I play right handed.
What do you find most interesting about the recording process (technically,
musically)?
Recording studios can fuck musicians up because when they go in they get
nervous so you can never capture a natural performance unless you’ve recorded
many, many times.
So, it’s important to get into the recording phase early on to get over the
recording jitters.
You can kill the music by trying to make it too technically perfect.
The most interesting thing about the recording process for me is the technical
challenge of making something sound really good met with the ability to capture
the spirit of music rather than just technically recording some piece of music.
Is there anything in particular that inspires you to write?
I’m never not inspired to write music. I can always write music no matter
what. Inspiration is something that’s developed. You don’t just drive down
the road and get inspired, I mean you can but you have to learn how to draw on
inspiration instantaneously. I don’t believe in like “Oh I’m inspired, so
I’ll write”. I believe in sitting down and writing music and by doing that
you will be inspired by a cord change or an accident that happens in a recording
or a flash of something that will happen during the creative process. But you
have to train yourself to continually dig into the creative process. You don’t
sit around and wait …you pull out your pick and shovel and dig for the
inspiration and the inspiration will come to you.
Do you write the music first or the lyrics?
The music always comes first. Sometimes I have a lyric idea that I can apply
somewhere. I put those ideas in notebooks and set them aside until I’m
searching for lyrics. I’ll go into the lyrics and see what fits the music. The
most important thing is that the lyric content fits the spirit of the music.
Some people like Elton John take a lyric and they write to it. I’m not and
most people aren’t. It’s rare.
If you could have anything in the world that you don’t already have what
would it be? It can be anything at all: material object, a desire, a matter of
the heart or a quality you don’t possess that you wish you did?
A doctorate degree in composition from the Eastman School of Music and a
Yamaha C7 Disklavier Pro.
With regards to your solo releases, do you have one particular song that
you’re most proud of and why?
Everyone asks that and it’s impossible because it’s like asking which
children are your favorites. Songs that stick out to me that I feel like I did a
good job on would be “Only One Word” at the top of the list just because –
not because of what it was about but the way I was able to transform a subject
in the way I did and encapsulate it in a song that carried all the impact of
what it was and also musically it was very crafted. The idea was an accident but
I took it and crafted it into what it became.
The songs that are true to my individuality are. …Naked Son, Only One Word,
Resurrection, Cross, Monster. Winger stuff that stands out… Blind Revolution
Mad, Who’s the one, Hungry, Rainbow in the Rose.
Were these the most cathartic for you?
Definitely, the ones that stick out were the most cathartic for me.
Have you ever thought of writing a book on your travels or your musical
journey?
I have thought of it but the book’s not finished yet so maybe I’ll start
it and wait till I’m finished with some things in my life.. Maybe in 20 years
I’ll write a book.
What is your favorite classical piece(s) to zone out to?
Honegger’s 3rd Symphony
What is spinning in your CD player these days?
Band demos that people send me and stuff I might be producing. I hardly ever
listen to music I listen to talk radio. I spend so much of my time working with
my music and hearing the sounds I’m trying to reach in my own musical path
that I find the silence is really important to me – that’s the main reason I
don’t listen to a lot of music.
What is the one moment in your musical life that stands out above others?
Good, bad, old or new, doesn’t matter.
When I wrote Two Lovers Stand in 1985 was the first time I understood how
counterpoint worked, that was a big moment for me.
Playing live on the second album in Paris, opening for the scorpions to a sold
out show at the arena in Paris. That was the best show I ever did
I did an acoustic show a year ago in Atlanta that was awesome and stands out.
Everyone was singing so loud I couldn’t hear myself. That was a great.
Wembley arena was a good one and playing n Alice Coopers band the first show
20,000 people live on MTV. There are so many good moments… Getting my first
platinum album, hearing my song on the radio for the first time driving down
LaCienega in Hollywood and I heard Madelaine come on the radio… that was
awesome.
Are you working on anything at the moment that you’ll be sharing with your
adoring public in the nest year or two?
Man, I know that it sucks that I don’t put out more music. My thing is I
don’t want to just put it out…there has to be a reason for it. I don’t
want to just put out ten songs that are crappy. If I’m gonna publish music it
has to be at a certain level. I’ve been really busy with the Turkish project
which has taken a year and a half and we should be done with it soon but it
won’t be a solo record. I have some solo ideas and I am expanding out into
different projects, which is why it is taking so long. There is a lot that will
probably all come at once.
Which do you find more gratifying – working with musicians in the studio as
a producer, or working on your own stuff?
Definitely working on my own stuff is way more gratifying. I live for the
creative process. The highest high of all highs is when you’re actually in the
moment knowing you are in the midst of creating something that’s really worth
creating.
Being creative as a producer is good but it’s more like being a coach for a
football team where you’re coaching them through their ability to find their
own Zen in the process.
Cenk Eroglu, Reb Beach and Peter Fletcher are the only three guys I’ve worked
with where I’ve reached that pinnacle of creativity where I’m creating
something that is above all things (for me) as far as that moment is concerned.
Usually it happens for me when I’m alone because it is such a personal and
private thing. I don’t transport there that easily with others in the room.
Usually I like to work alone. For me working alone means being safe, the doors
locked and that’s the only time I can unlock my ultimate place because I have
to know I don’t have to answer the phone and I have a complete zone to grab
what’s in the ether and bring it back down and transform it into a material
substance. What your doing is flying out into the universe to find that thing
that you’re hearing and flying back to the planet and transforming it into a
material medium and you have to be able to leave your body in a certain way. It
is tough to find that much solitude.
How’s your brother Paul these days and what’s he up to?
I talked to Jolly this morning actually. Paul’s good. He’s living and
doing all kinds of stuff.
You mentioned when you were doing the tour with Alan that Time was one of
your favorite songs – was that the song that got you into Alan Parsons project
or did it come from an earlier album?
I was just an Alan Parsons fan when I was a kid and then I met Alan and he
invited me to sing in his band and I showed up to do it because I thought it
would be cool to be a singer for somebody and especially somebody of his
stature. There was no way I could have turned it down. That was another one of
those great performing moments, when I got to sing Time in a theatre. It
didn’t work out for us to play more together because of our schedules but Alan
is a sweetheart and it was an honor to be a part of that.
At the start of cross you have a recording made in an Airport. Alan Parsons
has something similar for the start of the Traveler except that it is a train
station instead. Did you snag that idea from Alan?
No, I just travel around with a DAT player and record interesting shit and I
thought that on Ocean Floor, that since the album was such a journey and I was
on a journey anyway –it all just came together to open with the airport sounds
as the beginning of that journey. It added the ambience I was looking for. A lot
of the music was written already and I just had bits and pieces of the lyrics at
that point.
Outside of the music, what activities do you enjoy that help you strike a
balance in your life?
Fucking my wife. (Laughs) and just being around her. Ballet, I love taking
ballet class. I like being on the beach in the Caribbean, traveling to places
I’ve never been and staying in nice hotels. Living the good life.
What guilty pleasures do you have when watching television?
Fox news…. I like house rebuilding shows. I was really into Joe
Millionaire (the original one), we threw a party for the final episode.
What do you like to read, (genres, specific books)?
I like to read equipment manuals. (Just kidding). I like to read
spiritual/metaphysical books although haven’t been into that recently. I love
books about composers…music history, books on dance. I like to read books on
building houses. I’m reading a book on tonal harmony at the moment and the
last fiction I read was Angels and Demons and The DeVinci Codes.
My favorite is definitely the books on musical composers so I can tie it into my
travels. If I read a book on an Italian composer then I can go the location
where it all happened. I’ve read books on Brahms and Strauss and visited
Vienna. It’s sort of research driven.
What is your favorite movie of all time?
Dominic and Eugene loved Vanilla Sky and Dances with Wolves. I watched Billy
Jack a dozen times when I was a kid.
If you could co-headline a tour, who would you want to do it with and would
you want to do it as Winger the band or as a solo act?
Touring is touring. If there was a good bill to be on it would be great
because you bring in more people but since doing my solo thing though I have
come to appreciate playing for 10 people or 10,000 it doesn’t matter.
Are there any sounds or instruments you haven’t experimented with or
explored that you’d like to?
No I’ve experimented with most of the sounds that I’m curious about.
I’m drawn to some eclectic stringed instruments from different countries that
I’d like to get into. None of it is driving me to compose a piece of music
around it though. I’m always looking for new ways to punctuate my music. The
one instrument I am still drawn to really explore the dynamics of the most
though is probably the human voice.
I’m drawn to Native American sounds but since I’m not Native American it’s
touchy. There’s spirituality to some world instruments and I don’t think
they should be exploited without some understand of their sacredness. If I
don’t know the spirituality behind the instrument then it’s a bit of a
capitalistic rip off in a way. If I studied something about Hinduism and I
wanted to understand why the instruments are used in the way they are then I
would do it but just using them for the sake of it is only good on a very
limited basis.
Which for you if any is the greatest catalyst for divine inspiration: extreme
joy, anger frustration or pain? To take this question a step further would you
say there is almost a necessary insanity needed to remain somewhat sane and
balance out all of the ideas/thoughts that are born from any intense
inspiration?
That’s a bit like asking you which children you like the most.
(to Maz who asked this question) Have you tried therapy? (joking of course)
Divine inspiration is just divine inspiration it comes in all forms. You can get
it ignited from happiness, sadness, anger, frustration, pain – any of it. If
you’re consciousness is ignited by something then it’s divine.
Regarding your musical career only. What would you consider you’re most
humbling moment and how does it help/hinder where you are musically today?
When the music business decided that they thought I sucked – that was very
humbling. There was even a time when I started believing that I did suck. It
took me a long time to rebuild back to the place where I knew that my abilities
were worthy, so to speak. When I was down at the lowest point I rebuilt myself
from a very real place and you can hear that on Conversation. That is the
beginning of me being not “reactionary” real. Pull was a little reactionary
real. It was very real but it was reactionary so the minute I stopped caring
whether I was ever on the radio again or not was the very minute that I started
rebuilding my self from a very honest place. As far as humbling goes
though when I’m sitting in a symphonic hall listening to Beethoven, there is
nothing more humbling than that.
Does it have the positive effect of inspiring you to reach a little further?
It does inspire me to try harder since it is a different day and age and all
you have is your talents so you can either bury your head in the sand or face
what you have. You can be bummed that you’re not Beethoven or look at what you
do have and work with it.
I was not a great singer when I started, I worked with my voice till I became a
good singer. I wasn’t a good writer and I worked with my writing until I
became a good writer. And I was terrible with lyrics and now I write good
lyrics. I work with what I have and it’s one dot at a time, one word at a
time, one note at a time. If you slow down and look at things as one step at a
time you can walk thousand steps.
If you could pick any song in the world to remake what would it be and why?
Tears of a clown. I love that song. That’s the only song I’ve ever
thought of remaking though …… it’s an awesome song.
What
person in the music business taught you the greatest lesson about fame and what
advice did they give you?
Beau Hill gave me the best advice, which was never believe yourself too much,
never believe in your songs too much, never believe in your stardom. Being hot
on the charts – just watch it and live it but don’t let it become immunity
from being a real person. That was great advice. Alice Cooper was amazing to
watch. Having been a waiter before joining his band and seeing what being a rock
star was all about to him was helpful. His whole point of view is similar –
just never take any of it too seriously.
You have worked with some incredible musicians during your career. Name three
other artists that you would like to work and/or record with?
I’d prefer to work with the arrangers that know stuff I don’t know like
Vince Mendoza or Paul Buckmaster.
You’ve traveled the world over. What is the single most beautiful place
that you’ve been to?
That’s another one of those “which one is your favorite child”
questions. Rio is the most beautiful city I’ve been. Virgin Gorda is awesome.
Of course Paris. I get a little from everything. I could live a whole life in
Paris, I could live a whole life in Rio, one in California. A whole life in
South of France, one in Turkey but I’ll be dead before then.
What is the meaning, to you, of the artwork on your beautiful turquoise 12
string guitar?
It’s a picture from Daniel, on Conversation. Beatrice designed it. There’s
not a specific meaning behind it - it just seemed like a cool design. I’m
about to retire that guitar. The neck is broken.
How has living in Nashville changed you musically? And how has the move
sculpted your solo career?
It hasn’t at all. I could be anywhere in the world and my music will be my
music. I’m somewhat affected by the environment but generally I go in to the
either to pull music. Except that in Santa Fe the land did have a big affect on
my music.
Will Winger reunite from time to time over the next few years?
Reb and I keep talking about getting together to write a few songs. My whole
point of view is why? I always ask myself why? I can’t relate to doing it just
to make some money and go back out on tour and make the same old music.
Do you think you will be making music or in the music business for the rest
of your life? Or do you think you will try something different some day?
I was put on the planet to do music, that’s how I churn my soul. That’s
the matrix of my soul. I’m not in the music business – I am a musician,
that’s it. I don’t give a fuck about the music business. I often think if I
hadn’t been born with all this interest in music I might have been into
carpentry.
Have you ever been approached to do Broadway? If not and it were offered to
you would you do it?
If you want to do Broadway you kind of have to approach them. I’ve talked
to some people about it. But the day and age for that has passed for me. From a
vocal point of view I’d find it interesting but I’d rather spend my time
composing and studying music theory.
Regarding the Pas de Deux (In Your Eyes Another Life), that you wrote with
Cenk Eroglu, is this piece available or will it be available for release on CD?
It was a piece done for a ballet school and it is part of our album so it
will come out on the album.
I’ve also seen where you and Cenk have contributed to the music for Harem
Sultan and I had the same question about it’s release.
Cenk Eroglu really wrote all of the Harem Sultan music. They wanted to use
an old version of Free and so they used the Japanese version. I wrote a whole
new 6-8 minute arrangement of Free that I will record and release. Most of the
music for Harem Sultan though is really Cenks music. It’s great music. You
could e-mail Cenk if you want to know more about that.
Where do you see yourself 5 and/ or 10 years from now?
I have no idea…(laughing) In a big ranch in the mountains with a beach 2
hours away.
I am continuing with my orchestral music, which is my biggest dream I am most
afraid of. I’d like to have a few pieces performed by dance companies, couple
films, couple more solo records, applying my musical knowledge more to what I am
recording. Applying my studies to the music.
Your music has had a tremendous healing effect on me. Has the process of
creating it bought you healing?
Yes. The whole process is very cathartic for me but especially my solo
albums.
The Kip Winger forum has for the most part, been a cohesive, diverse and fun
group of people. Do you ever feel a sense of pride knowing that so many people
have met, bonded, and become friends all because of you and your music?
I think it’s really cool that so many people have stayed on the forum.
I’m kind of blown away by it. It’s nice to know that even though I don’t
check in that much you guys are still hanging in on the forum and I really
appreciate that for sure. It makes the difference between whether I’ll be
sitting here writing or not- when I know that what I’m going to put out on my
next solo album will be received on a soul level by all of you guys . I know it
will be truly digested.
I would like to know if you realize that your music is like a blanket that
embraces those of us that listen to it? It is captivating, extraordinary,
comforting and has created many life altering moments. Do you know that?
Ooh I’ve got goose bumps! (Laughs). That’s awesome. That is exactly what
I would hope it does. But I don’t try to do that. What I try to do is make it
life altering for me and if that affects somebody else that way then that is a
privilege for me to be a part of.
Thank you and on behalf of the group and myself I hope we passed the audition!!!
Sept 2000 Interview by Phil Anderson
Courtesy of http://www.kaos2000.net/interviews/kipwinger00/
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